Why you can’t compare a Tesla Model 3 to any $35,000 car

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Electric Jen, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. Electric Jen

    Electric Jen Member

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    It’s finally here! The much awaited Tesla Model 3 finally exists! Perhaps you were a little surprised and bummed (like me, admittedly) that you would have to wait even longer for the $35,000 base battery version. Perhaps you’re disappointed that the base model will not come with power seats or that in order to get a glass roof, you’re forced into premium interiors as well. Perhaps you’ve spent your time on Twitter, Facebook and online forums complaining about how you feel bamboozled and just can’t wrap your head around having to spend so much for the minimum amount of features you’re willing to accept.

    If you are, let me break it down for you right quick. You cannot compare a Tesla to any other $35,000 car, period. Here’s why:

    There are fundamental reasons why an electric car (or a car from any small car company) costs more to start. For one, you are trading a several hundred dollar recurring gas habit for a one time several thousand dollar battery pack. Secondly, you are comparing the cost of manufacturing for a company that makes millions of cars per year to one that has only made a fraction of that count. Those things aside, let me explain to you what you will be getting when you get a $35,000 base Model 3, and see for yourself whether or not these things should or do come standard in any other comparatively priced car.

    • Automatic emergency braking and collision avoidance
    • 15” touchscreen
    • Onboard maps and navigation
    • Wi-Fi and LTE internet connectivity
    • Remote climate control with app
    • Internet streaming radio
    • 8 year, 100,000 mile battery warranty (the most expensive part of the car)

    I haven’t gone and checked every car out there but let’s assume you’ve found an example that comes with all of the above and more. See for yourself whether any other car in that price range, electric or otherwise, can also claim all of these:

    • No haggle pricing
    • Online ordering
    • No up-selling of tire protection, undercoating or similar dealership options
    • Peace of mind that parts and service will never be a profit center
    • “Fuel” that costs a fraction of what gasoline does per mile
    • No tailpipe emissions
    • 0-60 in 5.6 seconds
    • Over the air software updates and improvements
    • Potentially mobile (come to your door) or remote service to correct problems
    • American designed and manufactured
    • No salespeople who work on commission
    • A huge crumple zone making it exponentially safer in a frontal collision
    • A rigid side frame making it exponentially safer in a t-bone collision

    While it’s tempting for first time electric vehicle consumer to compare it to a gasoline powered car, take it from me that you just can’t. You can compare the two no more than I can compare my $219.00 microwave to the $219.00 laptop that I recently bought my Mom. One will heat up my food and aside from having a built in timer that can be used when the device itself isn’t in use, has few other features. But it’s great at heating up my food. The other can play music, watch movies, store pictures, compose documents, connect me to the outside world and a whole host of other things. But man is that laptop is lousy at heating up my leftovers.

    What else do you get? Cool factor? An American designed and built car? Let me know in the comments!

    Article: Why you can’t compare a Tesla Model 3 to any $35,000 car
     
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  2. Tom van Zummeren

    Tom van Zummeren New Member

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    Here is an excellent video where Alex Venz tries to compare the Model 3 with other similarly priced cars with a similar acceleration. The conclusion is that with Model 3 you get much more than with those 'competitors'.



    I know, like you said, there is much more than just the feature comparison. That's why you can't compare it. But it is interesting to see that if you try to do it, Model 3 is already a winner on that front. And that is ignoring all the benefits you listed.
     
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  3. kscarr

    kscarr New Member

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    I guess i don't get your post. I don't have a hard time comparing it to any price level car. It might be apples vs oranges or apples vs grapes, but it's not apples vs dishwashers.
     
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  4. Electric Jen

    Electric Jen Member

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    The point was that if you compare, say, the lack of power seats, you must also compare the long list of things I mentioned.
     
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  5. GTSHHH

    GTSHHH New Member

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    Are we all color blind?
    One is Green and the others are Ebony Black
     
  6. bmz

    bmz New Member

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    #6 bmz, Aug 5, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
    "No haggle pricing" simply means no discounts; hence, a $45,000 Tesla M3 is going to cost more than anyone else's $45,000 car--certainly nothing to brag about.
    Elon Musk's 3/31/16 reveal was wonderful and exciting; the M3 was going to bring Tesla's engineering to the people, not just the wealthy.
    However, something radically changed between 3/31/16 and 7/28/17.
    We now know that the cars shown in that first reveal with the features that were going to be brought to the people, were really still for the "wealthy" with prices between $50,000 and $60,000 (without AWD, ludicrous, etc.) I wonder how many reservations there would have been made, if we had known about those prices in the beginning?
    Sure, the wealthy can afford an extra 10% for the FSD option on a model S. But to add 23% for that same option on the "peoples" car, is to break faith with the people who thought that Elon was actually bringing us something other than a mercurial bait and switch.

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/31/16069960/tesla-model-3-not-luxury-car-options-model-s
     
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  7. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    I don't see it the same way... it's just a matter of time...!

    Sure cars initially produced won't be for anybody's budget, yet, after a couple of quarters, sometime early 2018, lots of people will be able to get a rEVolutionary EV for less than $40k (excluding sales tax and destination fee...), as long as they are happy with the lower range option and not too demanding on frills... To your question about how many reservations would have been taken if the fact this base version would not be available from the start... my guess is over 80%! ;)
     
  8. bmz

    bmz New Member

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    Cute; but as you know, that wasn't my question at all. Here was my question: "We now know that the cars shown in that first reveal with the features that were going to be brought to the people, were really still for the "wealthy" with prices between $50,000 and $60,000 (without AWD, ludicrous, etc.) I wonder how many reservations there would have been made, if we had known about those prices in the beginning?

    My guess is that the market for a $55,000 car is about 20% of the market for $35,000 car.
    You apparently agree, because referring to the $49,000 cars you stated: "Sure cars initially produced won't be for anybody's budget,"
     
  9. Teslaliving

    Teslaliving Moderator

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    I'm definitely not in the $35K range based on the options I want, but I wonder how happy people will be with a $35K car with cloth seats, manual seat adjustments, and the other basic options which are pretty stripped down. You can arguably get a better interior (except for every other infotainment system in the world sucks by comparison) on cars that cost $10K less.
     
  10. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    I don't know... the standard equipment is not totally clear yet though I agree with you it won't best in class...
    I never really expected many to buy the car at the base price with zero extras, as people normally want to do a minimum amount of configuration...
    Suspect most who can afford 35k can also afford 40k, though concur that will be more than a stretch for some...

    On the other hand, for 35k, you get a sleek fully electric EV, with room for a family of 4, low maintenance costs, and the performance of a sports coupe... It all depends what people want and/or need vs. their budget... ;)

    Time will tell...
     
  11. joeski1

    joeski1 Member

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    Well...since just about every vehicle in that price range comes with REAL leather seating... a known durable and proven luxury material that many seats, chairs, and high end sofas have been made from for like 150 years....
    And the M3 will have a fake leather like seating surface and no other upgrade options...
    Jen is 100% right... you can't compare a typical $35K vehicle with an M3.. let alone one that maxes out at nearly $70K...
    Would not buy just on cheap seats alone..99% of time spent in the vehicle is on those seats...
    Don't simply accept BS excuses about "cruelty free"..Not 1 steer, cattle, or cow will be saved by this nonesense..
    There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that can compare to the leather construction and comfort of the nexgen seats.. NOTHING.
     
  12. vonwegen

    vonwegen New Member

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    Leather is overrated, IMHO. It's cold in winter, and too hot in summer, plus, it's slippery. Give me cloth anytime.

    Plus, never needing to stop for gas, EVER.
     
  13. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    Herzlich Willkommen, @vonwegen !!
    Yeah, opinions vary on the true benefits of leather... I have historically personally enjoyed it in my BMWs during many years, yet was disappointed to see cracks on the side of Dakota-leather covered driver seat in my current X5 after a little over two years (albeit it after 100k km...). In addition, though I used to hate the feeling of synthetic leather/leatherette in German cars, I have been favorably impressed by the touch/haptic of the vegan version in T≡SLA cars I've seen in Stores (not a current owner until I get my Model 3 finally! ;)).

    Schönen Gruß!
     
  14. Astranger

    Astranger New Member

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    #14 Astranger, Aug 11, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
    You are getting a $35000 personal transportation. Of course you can compare it with other similar available options for that money and that includes ICE cars. ICE cars are basically what electric cars are competing against. Electric cars and ICE cars serve exactly the same purpose. Microwaves and laptops don't do any tasks that are remotely close, so you are right you can't compare those two, but you absolutely can compare EVs and ICE cars. In fact, you should compare them if you are thinking about getting an EV for their pros and cons.

    Elon said during the initial reveal that "You won't find a better car at $35000 electric or not". I bought into that. Do you know any other car costing $35000 that requires $5000 option to have Cruise control? Do you know any other cars that you have to pay extra $1000 if you don't want it to be black?

    I agree about cool factor. I think a lot of people think it is cool and I bet for some that's the main reason they are getting it for.
     
  15. Astranger

    Astranger New Member

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    Wouldn't you think you are in minority liking cloth seats over leather seats?
    You never stop for gas ever, but you have to stop for electricity and for much longer time to go the same distance.
     
  16. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    It is highly unlikely that this will be correct. While we have no official confirmation that the standard Model 3 version does indeed have CC, we certainly expect it to be the case as it is today for Model S & X.

     
  17. Astranger

    Astranger New Member

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    #17 Astranger, Aug 12, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
    I've read that the basic model will not have CC unless you buy Auto Pilot option.
    Model S could and should have that without the option. Model S price is more than double of average price of cars people pay for.
    I can tell you that I feel the source I read should definitely be incorrect about it and about the extra $1000 you have to pay if you want something other than black because that sounds pretty crazy if you ask me.
     
  18. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    Astranger, mind sharing your source? In any case, until we hear anything else from T≡SLA, like you, I will not believe it... it is unfathomable that a $35-45k car in the entry luxury segment would not have a basic CC.

    On the price of colors, I am less perturbed than you seem to be. At least in Europe, all ICE cars in the same segment (BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, possible Mercedes C-Class) come standard in plain, flat (not to say dull...) black or white, and you have to be ~1k for any metallic paint... I understand this may be a bit cheaper in the US ($600 or so?) yet are we really going to nitpick about 300-400 bucks at this price point...? ;)

    It's going to be great... And remember, you're in LA, pretty soon you'll be able to see them everywhere... Have you actually reserved one? Seen one? I can tell you, having just returned from the US, including a short time in the Bay Area and seen a few, it is G.O.R.G.E.O.U.S.!! :)
     
  19. Astranger

    Astranger New Member

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    "It’s also important to notice that something as basic as cruise control is $5,000 extra, since it can only be gotten together with the Enhanced Autopilot features."
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4092758-seen-44000-49000-tesla-model-3-yet

    I have never paid extra for the paint of the cars I owned and I have never owned a black or white.
    I have had reservations for two, but I've cancelled one and trying hard to keep one, but I am not so sure about it.
    I haven't seen one on the road yet.
     
  20. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    Thanks. Trust you know that several (not all, though...) SA writers are notable T≡SLA-bashers and Paulo Santos is one of them (Montana Skeptic is even worse!). This particular article is a good illustration of how you can twist reality & facts in a particular way, here only to induce skepticism and negative perception. There are many, many portions which are highly disingenuous and which I could debunk, yet I won't, I'd have to rewrite the whole thing!!

    So, message is, everybody is entitled to their own opinion yet we have to take some of the stuff that appears on the internet with a grain of salt.

    Good you kept one reservation. May I respectfully suggest you hold on to it until such point as you've actually seen the car, even better sat in it and taken a test drive... Again, for you this is probably only a few months away. And by all means tell us what you think/feel afterwards! ;)
     

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