Tesla Model 3 with RWD will be produced first, followed by dual motor in "6 to 9 months"

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by teslarati, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. Matthew Hill

    Matthew Hill New Member

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    The reason people prefer FWD for snow isn't because you're "pulling" the car, it's because most cars have more weight on those wheels due to the engine being in the front. More weight == more traction.

    At least at slow speeds. With higher acceleration, you really do want the rear wheels driven due to weight transfer.

    Trust me, you do NOT want a FWD *electric* car.
     
  2. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    Case in point:

    Look at the last comment: it is absolutely not clear at this point whether or not you'd miss the rebates which are likely to be available in full for the most part of 1H18. Remember the 200k limit is for the number of cars sold in the US, now WW... :) Please ponder well before pulling the plug. And I really say this for you, I don't even own shares... ;)
     
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  3. LeoChelsea

    LeoChelsea New Member

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    I thought the battery pack distributes the weight evenly front to back so pushing or pulling the car is more relevant for control.
     
  4. LeoChelsea

    LeoChelsea New Member

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    Excellent question posted by Isabella Kent. Please let us know if Tesla replies.
     
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  5. Steve2018

    Steve2018 New Member

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    The placement of the battery pack does distribute the load on the front and rear axles more evenly. Also, a front wheel drive car has about 60% of its weight over the front wheels. Great for traction until you go up a steep hill, then the weight transfers to the rear and then FWD traction can be a lot less!!. If you had a 50/50 weight distribution with traction control and RWD, you would be much better off when going up hill. i do not know the weight distribution of a RWD Model S. If it is 45/55 then I would choose that set up over any FWD car for any circumstances. In fact, I am not a fan of FWD for any kind of performance driving.

    Steve
     
  6. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    @LeoChelsea , if you click on her tweet, you'll see the first response from Elon which is a laconic yet affirmative 'yes'...! :)
     
  7. D.G. Brown

    D.G. Brown New Member

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    If you're in a "hilly" area that gets snow, you really need both AWD and traction tires. Keep in mind that is the NW definition of "hilly" (a place where it's not a "mountain" unless it has year-round snow and/or it has erupted recently).

    For instance, Portland and Seattle both have a high elevation ranges (1000' and 500' respectively, not including their greater metro areas) and tend to fluctuate above and below freezing when they have snow and ice storms (extra slippery). Many roads will simply be impassible to anything without AWD and traction tires (and sometimes not even then). It makes for hilarious youtube videos, but it's a reality of living in the NW.

    Full disclosure, I'm not planning on buying a 3, but if I was, I would be definitely waiting until the AWD version is available (it's not worth it if I have to leave it in the garage when it snows).
     
  8. Yahred

    Yahred New Member

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    #28 Yahred, Mar 26, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
    This may end up being a deal breaker for a lot of current reservations. If I can't get the AWD along with the tax credit, my reservation will likely be canceled. I waited in line the morning of Day 1 for a car I likely would not receive for 2 years, to ensure my early reservation number and get the tax credit.

    As an "average" consumer rather than a loaded Tesla enthusiast, I look at it as a $33k AWD luxury sedan when you include the tax credit, so it makes financial sense and is good value. If that's $40k and 9 months later than anticipated, not so much. $33k would already be substantially more than I (and the average consumer) have paid for a sedan.

    This is Tesla's one big shot at a mass market play. The average buyer for this car isn't going to be a fanboy who accepts limited choices, delays, and major cost impacts. Those issues that fly with rich people buying toys don't fly with the average consumer.

    Better get cracking on the AWD or they might be in trouble here.
     
  9. GoingofftheGrid

    GoingofftheGrid New Member

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    Hello all - am a model 3 reservation holder (a dreamer initially as I test drove the 'S' but it's just out of my price range and rationale). If I recall, when reading about the tax credit, the title needs to be 'in hand' in order to be 'counted' as a purchase car and at that time be under the 200k limit for,full tax credit. Thus, even if you've put in your specs Etc, you cannot qualify for the credit until title is in hand. Meaning, the criteria and rules are federally controlled, not by tesla.
    Perhaps I have misread but this was an article diretly linked via the tesla website.
     
  10. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    I think you R probably right (seems logical) yet I trust some US-based expert can confirm...

    Also good references here... :)

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/markro...ple-who-get-7500-back-heres-how/#29c2d4e72783
     
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  11. LeoChelsea

    LeoChelsea New Member

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    Michael, assuming one can take advantage of the full federal tax credit, I understand you must owe $7,500 in taxes. So if during the year I deduct enough taxes from my pay check and don't owe the government any money, will I forfeit the tax credit? Do I need to increase the number of allowances (exemptions) such that I owe at least $7,500 by year's end?
     
  12. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    Sorry, on this one, probably best to let one of the (true ;)) Americans answer... Intuitively, I think it is probably safer to ensure you have at lease $7.5 in taxes at year end to apply the credit too.
    Good luck. Am hoping on €6k from French authorities myself... we have a VAT rather than a sales tax and only that is >20%!! Then we Europeans have the uncertainty linked to the exchange rate by the time we get to order... Every little bit helps! :)
     
  13. GrandPoobah

    GrandPoobah New Member

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    Not a CPA but definitely an "Amuracan" ... but this tax credit should work like any other tax credit. It won't matter what you owe in taxes, as long as you file the long form (1040) and itemize deductions. If you owe less than $7500, you'll get a check from the IRS for the difference. If you owe more, you'll only pay the IRS the difference. Either way, you'll receive the full tax credit, but ONLY if you itemize.
     
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  14. GoingofftheGrid

    GoingofftheGrid New Member

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    I hope we all are able to get the full tax credit - I know I'm unlikely to get it (but will remain hopeful) as I only put in my M3 reservation a couple of weeks ago and I too intend to opt for the AWD (another reason I'll be towards the 'back of the line'). Such is life sometimes. Best of luck to the rest of you.
     
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  15. Knut Erik Ballestad

    Knut Erik Ballestad New Member

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    I can totally buy your acceleration argument, but my Leaf is the best non-4WD winter car that I've ever driven. The traction control system is really smooth compared to similar systems in ICE cars. I've heard the same applies to RWD Tesla's and BMW i3's, so I guess the fact that you can instantly control torque, and not end up with brakes and engine fighting each other is what makes electric cars good in winter conditions.

    My Leaf easily climbs snowy and ICY hills where my Audi and VW FWD ICE cars had to give up.

    But, I still want 4WD for climbing the very steep mountain roads to the cabin though - M3 reserved :)
     
  16. Mergoscia

    Mergoscia Member

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    #36 Mergoscia, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    I thought the difference between a hill and a mountain lies between 999 and 1000 feet, as stated in the movie
    The Englishman ........ Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain.
     
  17. Mergoscia

    Mergoscia Member

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    I've got 5 questions, because I was confused at first.
    RWD= Rear Wheel Drive.
    FWD= Front Wheel Drive (question 1)
    AWD= All Wheel Drive.
    4WD=Four Wheel Drive or is it in short FWD as well (question 2)
    Question no 3. Are there huge differences between AWD and 4WD? And for what reasons?(question no 4)

    Does somebody know if one can choose between AWD and 4WD for the model 3? (question no 5)
     
  18. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    Question 1: FWD is the opposite of RWD, i.e. Front vs. rear wheel drive
    Question 2: nope; see answer 1, why abbreviate four as F when you have the gorgeous number 4 at your disposal (Magic Four... Fab Four, etc...)
    Question 3: unless your car has more than 4 wheels (which, as I write it at this soon to be ungodly hour, is not very common), ALL would mean the four wheels that enable moving from point A to point B... Hence AWD = 4WD or, as some would call it X-drive :)))
    Question 4: nope, see answer 3, I guess both can be used indifferently, depending on your personal preference (again, unless the car in question has 6 or wheels... normally I call these trucks... :p)
    Question 5: nope, all I know is the option for dual motors, in other words one driving each axle, making the car AWD, as oppose to RWD for the base model... which only has one motor on the rear wheels...

    Gosh... I need to rest now... my mind is spinning on AWD..! :D
     
  19. Mergoscia

    Mergoscia Member

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    Michael, Best for you is a RWD M3. Otherwise your head keeps spinning, ha, ha, ha. Thanks for the explanation
     
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  20. Dan8

    Dan8 New Member

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    Yea, me too. There seems to be a streak of negative news for owners coming out as production nears. Fooled us once, twice? The more bad news the more I'm disenchanted with Tesla 3. I'm also starting to dislike the giant screen. It feels like we should be running a spreadsheet while driving and it's distracting. Musk said the cockpit will look like a spaceship. Hmmmm. So by the time the AWD comes out and trickles down to buyers, it will be 2019 and there will be several other cars on the market like the MB EQ. And what about the Model Y, it looks like that will also get pushed back a year or two.
    Bad karma all around. People are getting nervous, Musk is looking like he hyped us maybe or did we read too much between the lines?
     
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