Tesla Model 3 battery options to top out at 75 kWh with likely 300+ mi. range

Discussion in 'In the News' started by clprenz, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. clprenz

    clprenz Member

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    #1 clprenz, Mar 24, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2017
    [​IMG]

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has revealed that Model 3 battery options will max out at 75 kWh due to the vehicle’s shorter wheelbase, relative to the larger Model S and Model X which can accommodate up to a 100 kWh battery pack size.

    The highly anticipated mass market electric car will be using Tesla’s newest high performance ‘2170 cell’ that’s currently being produced at Gigafactory 1 in Sparks, Nevada, and being used in Tesla’s Powerpack and Powerwall energy storage systems. Beyond having a larger form factor than the existing 18650 battery cell being used in Tesla’s existing vehicle fleet, the 2170 lithium-ion cell that boasts a higher energy density by as much as 30%.

    ALSO SEE: Tesla Gigafactory 1 is beginning to look like a small city [Mar. 2017 photos]

    Though Tesla has not specified the maximum driving range for Model 3, one can expect that a “Model 3 75D” would have a range higher than the heavier and larger Model S with 75 kWh pack. Looking at the Model S 60 which is capable of 210 miles of range, or .285 kWh/mile, one can assume that a smaller and lighter Model 3 would consume roughly .242 kWh/mile. Based on that estimate, a rear wheel drive Model 3 with 75 kWh battery pack will top out at 310 miles of range per charge. By comparison, the Chevy Bolt has a 60 kWh battery pack and is capable of achieving 240 miles of driving range, or .250 kWh/mile.



    Model 3 to lead Chevy bolt with more range

    It’s worth noting that the Chevy Bolt has a much higher drag coefficient than the Tesla Model S, which shares a similar aerodynamic design as the Model 3. The Bolt’s drag coefficient is .32 while the Model S has a drag coefficient of .24.

    The lead designer of the Chevy Bolt, Stuart Norris, claims, “It’s a disaster for aero(dynamics)”, according to Digital Trends. The Model 3 on the other hand, has a very fluid design and will undoubtedly out-class the Chevy Bolt in aerodynamics and range. The more efficient Model 3 will allow the vehicle to have less battery for the same range.



    Musk later stated that the Model 3 would offer more range than the Chevy Bolt, which we are not surprised by. Musk also claims that cars like the Chevy Bolt are sold at a loss and help the manufacturer comply with emission requirements. While Tesla does generate revenue from emissions credits, they aren’t considered to be stable sources of income.

    “What you will see our competitors do is they will limit their production, and they will only sell in ZEV states or almost entirely in ZEV states. That doesn’t scale. That will take them to maybe 40,000 units or 50,000 units a year, best case, but we’re talking about doing 500,000 units a year.” - Elon Musk Q3 Earnings Call

    Musk tweeted a video showing a Model 3 release candidate driving down a local street today. The company says it’s on track to begin production of Model 3 in July. Tesla is expected to throw a Model 3 ‘Part 3’ launch event sometime in June ahead of planned production.

    Article: Tesla Model 3 battery options to top out at 75 kWh with likely 300+ mi. range
     
  2. Mergoscia

    Mergoscia Member

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    #2 Mergoscia, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
    When model 3 will have 75kWh only I will redraw my reservation. (VW?-) Testmarks say 300 + or 311 miles (500 km) range is possible. That is in the very best situation possible with smooth straight highway-roads without curves all the journey of those 300+miles, no further traffic, warm weather at about a constant degree of 23 C, humidity around 55%, the car does not have extra weight of passengers or luggage and constantly Full Self Driving at 50mph. When and where is this to happen, maybe next to a desert in America some times of the year. I know not one day in Europe, not even in the Spanish desert (where almost every American Western movie was recorded.). So impossible. When one of those factors falls away the range will drasticly decrease to say 249 miles (400 km) or even less. For a normal range 85kWh is at least necessary and even then .....one time sprinting from 0 to 60 m uses so much energy that range will decrease rapidly.

    So one cannot expect a model 3 with performance and range combined. With 75kWh you can't even drive from Supercharger to Supercharger. There goes my dream driving in scvandinavia.

    I would advise not to buy the model 3. A waste of money.
     
  3. anonim1979

    anonim1979 New Member

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    FUD.

    Those will be miles estimated by EPA cycle not NEDC.

    Unless you go to East Europe (and I mean geographical East not Central) in ~2018+ there will be no problems with Superchargers.

    P.S.
    Nitpick.
    "Waste" not "waist".
     
  4. Mergoscia

    Mergoscia Member

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    #4 Mergoscia, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
    Thanks for the correction. I want to learn and speak / write properly every day. The waist of my wife is no waste.

    But concerning the content of your reply. Do you want to get stuck every 300 km (187 miles) for at least an hour when you have to drive 700 km (435 miles) or more a day? Then you rather want to be 2 hours quicker at your destination.
     
  5. anonim1979

    anonim1979 New Member

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    :)

    Such a long daily trips are edge case. If you do so don't buy Tesla/any EV yet.

    But it is not my typical usage.
    Only 2 or 3 times a year trip to my sister and her kids in a capital that is ~250km (~150miles) each way from my home would need charging break.
    With one Supercharger on the way I can live with being "stuck" for about 20 minutes each time.
    No need to charge to 100%...

    Though I wouldn't mind S100D with EPA estimate of 335miles/539km :p
    Pity that it is not in a budget any time soon if ever.
     
  6. gizmowiz

    gizmowiz New Member

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    Yeah and I bet Tesla depositors will have to wait till late 2019 to get a P75D model 3. Maybe 2020. That stinks. And by then the price will be astronomical above $60,000. Might as well buy a Model S. Or a BMW, Mini, VW (many models coming by then).

    I'll take the Mini EV Convertible AWD if they make it. Any range they make.
     
  7. Mergoscia

    Mergoscia Member

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    I don't have to work anymore and my wife will work only 2 and half year. We're planning to drive around Europe for a couple of years even in severe winter periods to find us a couple of nice houses to live. At times I drove 700 km a day just to be in several meetings of half an hour or less. So I know what that means, but as well what fuel stops mean. I didn't mind the driving, but i did mind the long hours.
    And of course I as well want a S P100D, but don't want to eat the budget for holidays, for the houses or the early retirement. So no budget for the S allthough the S is better for my needs.
     
  8. Mergoscia

    Mergoscia Member

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    When I have to wait that long for the model 3 P75D I buy myself a Volvo V90 cross country version full electric by that time. But don't think I have to wait that long. I'm doing a new post about the discontinuing of model S75 and the 3 with highest batterypack of 85kWh.
     
  9. McRat

    McRat New Member

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    Here are neutral facts.

    Nobody has tested the kWh capacity or real world range on the Tesla Model 3 retail version. However they have on the 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV. This winter, Edmunds purchased a Bolt EV for a long term test. So far as of February this is the range results:

    "...
    Our consumption average over the 2,166 miles we've driven the Bolt so far is 27.5 kWh/100. That beats the rating, because lower is better with a consumption unit such as this. The most anyone has driven on a charge so far is 210.5 miles, but that's not really a maximum because the person didn't run it to empty. As noted, no one ever should. The thing to do is add driven range to remaining range to determine maximum projected range, a more useful comparative number. The Bolt's best maximum projected range observed so far is 280.1 miles.

    If you still can't make sense of this without miles per gallon equivalent, here you go. The EPA combined estimate is 119 mpge, and our average is 122.7 mpge.

    Average lifetime consumption: 27.5 kWh/100 miles (122.7 mpge)
    EPA consumption rating: 28 kWh/100 combined (119 mpge)
    Best fill: 22.2 kWh/100 (137.6 mpge)

    Maximum distance driven: 210.5 miles
    Average distance driven: 84.9 miles
    Maximum projected range: 280.1 miles
    EPA range rating: 238 miles

    Current odometer: 2,166 miles


    Maintenance and Upkeep
    None
    ."​

    Source: https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/b...bolt-ev-monthly-update-for-february-2017.html

    So it seems for the Model 3 to achieve parity with the 2017 Bolt EV, 240 miles of real world range might not be enough. Nobody knows what range the 2018 Bolt EV will have.
     
  10. Mark Schaffer

    Mark Schaffer Member

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    This poster posts unreliable information and makes assumptions. Be wary.
     
  11. Graham Sutton

    Graham Sutton New Member

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    Ive a M3 reservation, I currently drive a P85 MS. Its obvious to me Tesla is offering the M3 at 75KW because it is what Tesla has to do right now to not takes sales of the more lucrative MS.
    It is why Tesla has dropped the 60 KW S as there was product overlap.
    Just look at a M3 it has the wheels pushed out to its corners more than the MS for reasons other than cabin space alone, it is to accommodate the biggest battery possible.
    Now that space is by my estimates only 25% less than a MS, but the new form factor batteries are 30% greater in energy density?
    I would have thought therfore a 100KW M3 is possible, however its aerodynamics are unlikly to better the MS due to shorter overall length and despite the talk of the lighter M3 the MS is all aluminium, the MS would still have the better range by a few % but they would be in the same ball park so Tesla is not going to let that happen.
    Tesla has already said it intends to upgrade MS to the new form factor cells when they have spare capacity, when this happens the MS will go to 120+KW and at that point i would expect to see 80 to 100 KW M3.
    Its a question of supply/demand and marketing, I dont see its a technical problem its a timing problem......waiting for the perfect M3!
     
  12. Mergoscia

    Mergoscia Member

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    #12 Mergoscia, Mar 26, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
    In relation to range, the problem here is Elon Musk himself.
    After questions via Twitter, Elon answered something in this way:" No, there will be no 100kWh batterypack in the M3. It simply don't fit".
    Leading his buyers to believe that a 90 and /or 85kWh batterypack belong to the options. Not only that. The buyers were to expect those were included in the options. Now Elon writes that the 75kWh batterypack is the maximum possible quantity and more don't fit........on the M3 platform.
    Nobody believes that!
    Next to this point, I remember Elon did mentioned one time that the M3 will have a max range of about 300 miles, or do I remember falsely?
     
  13. gizmowiz

    gizmowiz New Member

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    Musk continues to give short shrift to people who live in Cold Weather states--if they want AWD they will have to wait until the federal rebates are ZERO.

    Priorty:

    1) prior Tesla owners (regardless of Reservation #).
    2) West Coast buyers (regardless of Reservation #).
    3) RWD buyers (regardless of Reservation #)

    So even if you sign up early in first minute online and have a low reservation # it means absolutely nothing at all and you sure won't get the federal rebates.

    Socking it to us in cold weather states is what Musk is doing.

    Colorado has one of the highest EV usage in the nation behind California and yet it's getting short shrift.

    As far as I'm concerned I hope Tesla goes belly up now as it's biased to those of us who strongly support EVs--those in Minnesota, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, etc.,
     
  14. JP White

    JP White New Member

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    @Mergoscia

    You may want to watch Bjorn Nylands road trips on YouTube in his Tesla and some much less capable vehicles.

    He uses a combination of Supercharger, CHAdeMO and AC chargers and seems to be able to cover huge distances over a weekend.
     
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  15. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    @JP White , that is very true and he can be quite funny too... yet he also seems to have to stop quite often, 'cause like he says in his precious Thai Norvegian English with an American accent 'Oooo.... it's fri...ing cold...! :D
    Yep... it's in Norway! ;)
     
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  16. Mark Schaffer

    Mark Schaffer Member

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    Have a drink and relax already. The world is imperfect but the goal is extremely important.
     
  17. Michael Russo

    Michael Russo Moderator

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    @gizmowiz , I truly don't mean to offend, yet I am afraid you're letting your emotions cloud your senses...
    First of all, why wish bankruptcy to a company that employs 30,000 people @ counting, the majority in the US?! There are families behind each... :confused:
    In addition, be reminded that everybody who will get the car most likely during all or most of 1H18 will be eligible for the full tax credit... Elon also responded 'I believe so...' to Nick Baum's question below:

    As somebody wrote on M3OC, it's kinda funny to think that only 6 months ago, there were many on the net who were skeptical whether any Model ≡ was going to be produced in 2017... and now a mere AWD delay is causing all this raucous?!
    Please, for your own sake, take a breather (Calm is a great app if you don't want to drink... ;))
     
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  18. Knut Erik Ballestad

    Knut Erik Ballestad New Member

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    Even the Model S 60D manages 237 miles (381km), and the Model S75D manages 290 miles (466 km). A model 3 with the same battery packs should easily outperform the Model S wrt range.
     
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  19. Knut Erik Ballestad

    Knut Erik Ballestad New Member

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    Then you are comparing the Model 3 with a vehicle which have the size & price of a model S....
     
  20. Lowhican

    Lowhican New Member

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    I have to say the closer the Model 3 final specs become clear, the less I like this car as the spring board many investors are hoping for the Model 3. They are starting off by selling the least desirable model first. This is in direct contrast with their earlier approaches when launching the signature series versions of Model S and X's. They may have good reason for them to do this i.e., manufacturing ramp up is easier; they can proclaim in their marketing efforts the starting price tag really is $35,000, instead of the ballooned price the loaded versions will cost. But these are not customer centrist reasons. Customers until now have seen the future of travel in Tesla and they want in now. They want the dual motor, fastest car around that can travel up to 300 miles and still cost $35k. Of course news that the front, center mounted counsel is all anyone is getting for in their all in one instrument cluster is also not customer centrist in my opinion. Elon has tried to brush aside any worries with the comment about "how often do you look at a taxis speedometer". True. But people I don't think are ready auto-pilot or no to just get rid of driving themselves completely. I am sure it is something that will be fun to use and a utility that will be used often, but will people buy this car thinking that they plan to never drive again? I think many people; myself included enjoy the thrill of Ludicrous acceleration and steering thru S turns on back country roads. I hope my concerns are completely wrong, because I am a big fan of Elon and his companies for many years. But like many billionaires, they have a hard time admitting when they are wrong.
     

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